Piste Basher wrote:
Well you may be right (I hope you are) but some things still puzzle me about this mesh business. How, for example, does it co-exist with the Assisted roaming function, and how does it differ from a bunch of APs in AP mode?

I was about to create a new post when I saw your point in this thread; in essence it is the latter statement I too would like clarifying i.e. "...how does it differ from a bunch of APs". I have a 2862LAC in a residential environment and I am considering adding Mesh/x2 AP(s) working on a single SSID but despite numerous threads here/reddit/draytek docs etc etc I'm still confused as to the merits of setting up as Mesh nodes versus AP's in the configuration....and whether or not to turn off the Wi-Fi on the router (if using AP's and not using router as mesh root) or simply configure it to alternate channel...

I should add that in either case BOTH AP's or Nodes would be ethernet i.e. do not need wireless "benefit" of Mesh.

therave wrote:
it is the latter statement I too would like clarifying i.e. "...how does it differ from a bunch of APs". I have a 2862LAC in a residential environment and I am considering adding Mesh/x2 AP(s) working on a single SSID

Well to try and pull-together everything we've discovered experimentally or by accident ..

I don't believe there can be many residential properties that actually need a full blown Wireless mesh - i.e. multiple network paths, with dynamic redundancy (@pistebasher, stop laughing :lol: ).

A single additional node - yes - for range extension, or crossing open space. In that case, Draytek Mesh gives you VLAN support over wireless (probably no WDS or Extenders that do that) and the ability to 'push-out' config. changes from the Root node (not really a show-stopping feature, IMHO).

The downside to Mesh-mode, is the performance hit ( see separate thread ). This comes from the auto-provisioning of nodes onto the same channels, and the refusal to use 80MHz bandwidth on 5GHz. The former may be a requirement in wireless Mesh mode, but can be overridden in wired 'mesh mode'. The bandwidth limitation can't, at least not on an AP802 running V1.3.4.1 firmware.

So, IMHO, use ethernet links if at all possible, put all the APs and Router into "AP Mode" (same SSID) and choose a non-overlapping channel allocation scheme; with 80MHz bandwidth on 5GHz (and whatever is available on 2.4GHz). (Turn off any SKY Q box networks that are unnecessarily filling up CH36-48). CH52 can be used with only a minute or so of playing dead (due to DFS), but for CH100 and beyond, allow for 10 minutes non-functionality after power-up ). Depending on how far apart they are, you may be able to re-use CH36 at opposite ends of the house. (Being able to alter the Transmit Power would probably help with that, but I'm not convinced it's working on the AP903 )

Turn on "AP assisted roaming" - which appears to work, but without any confirmatory SYSlog messages, in AP mode.

As far as I can tell I do not suffer the "absence of 80MHz" phenomenon with my AP903s

However, the mesh does behave rather oddly. This afternoon I decided to change my AP903 node in the adjacent bedroom from Wireless uplink back to Wired.

I factory reset the AP903 and deleted it from the mesh setup screen on the 2926ac root.

That immediately knocked the AP903 in the garage offline - remember that this node is connected wirelessly to one or other of the two wired nodes downstairs, which in theory at least should not have been affected at all by what I had just done

I searched for, found and adopted the (now wired) bedroom AP into the mesh. No problems there, but after 30 minutes I was still waiting for the garage AP to show up as online, even though it should never have gone offline in the first place.

Eventually I gave up, went out to the garage and switched the AP off and then on again. After about 5 minutes it showed up as online and about 5 minutes after that it was fully back "in the mesh".

Crazy or what?

Piste Basher wrote:
As far as I can tell I do not suffer the "absence of 80MHz" phenomenon with my AP903s

I'm not in a position to test that myself - the AP802 can't be set as a Mesh Root. I noticed it initially, using this Android App. - the SYSlog message I subsequently spotted, implies it is done on purpose. I wonder why it would be necessary for an AP802 node and not for an AP903 one? Presumably a hardware-related difference ...

I take it that all your AP903 Mesh nodes are automatically set to use the same channel?

and he wrote: However, the mesh does behave rather oddly. ... after 30 minutes I was still waiting for the garage AP to show up as online, even though it should never have gone offline in the first place.

Crazy or what?

It's hard to believe it's what Draytek had in mind

You could always log a call with them, 'though I'm not sure when you'd get a response. I'm still waiting for a reply to my non-working 5GHz issue on the AP802 - despite sending them a copy of the config. that replicates the issue at will.

(Speaking of config. files - have you noticed that the AP903/AP802 config. backups are in plain text?)

hornbyp wrote:

therave wrote:
it is the latter statement I too would like clarifying i.e. "...how does it differ from a bunch of APs". I have a 2862LAC in a residential environment and I am considering adding Mesh/x2 AP(s) working on a single SSID

So, IMHO, use ethernet links if at all possible, put all the APs and Router into "AP Mode" (same SSID) and choose a non-overlapping channel allocation scheme; with 80MHz bandwidth on 5GHz (and whatever is available on 2.4GHz).....Turn on "AP assisted roaming" - which appears to work, but without any confirmatory SYSlog messages, in AP mode.

Thanks hornbyp!

That confirms my initial thoughts. Although I have to say I have done some further reading this evening and several, what appear to be "well-qualified" network experts on different sites (quora and reddit to name just 2), have yet again confused me by suggesting that there is a tendency for clients to "hang on" to AP's which doesn't occur with Mesh. The reasoning being, if I have understood correctly, is that Mesh Nodes "know about each other" in terms of RSSI etc where AP's act totally independently (without numerous tweaks in configuration that would force clients off, for example, below certain RSSI thresholds). I think I'd better stop all research: the more I read the more conflicting advice and opinions I get!!!

therave wrote:
... have yet again confused me by suggesting that there is a tendency for clients to "hang on" to AP's which doesn't occur with Mesh. The reasoning being, if I have understood correctly, is that Mesh Nodes "know about each other" in terms of RSSI etc where AP's act totally independently ...

One of the problems, is that every manufacturer's 'Mesh' implementation seems to be different. There is a standard - 802.11s - that nobody seems to implement! (see here ). It doesn't appear to address 'roaming' at all, from what I can see.

Draytek's AP-Assisted roaming is a cooperative scheme, that relies on inter-AP communication to decide on the best connection point. It only works in wired mode though! (both AP and Mesh, as far as I can tell)

One thing I haven't investigated, is whether there is some alternate Draytek scheme for use in Wireless Mesh Mode. Who knows, there might be - though I've not seen any documentation to suggest there is. Sounds like another experiment